Mizz Richards wrote:As soon as I heard his name... I thought, "Oh boy... Muslims just can't get a break..."
 
They say this guy screamed out, "In the name of Allah!" before he started killing people. Very reminiscent of 9/11... very scary.
 
This can't be good for those out there who already have prejudicial ideas about these particular people.
 
I can tell from your post that you are not discriminating against anyone at all. Your questions are valid indeed. And being that the army was supposedly "watching" this dude and he allegedly had some suspicious things going on in his computer... I definitely feel he should've been dealt with as an individual case w/cause for concern...

AlisaBZCA wrote:So I was watching the news this morning about Major Hasan and his background.  He was born in Virginia to Jordanian parents.  He is and his parents are American citizens.  He is a Muslim and has been his entire life.
 
I've heard people say before that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to serve in the military.  I blasted them as prejudiced and disgusting.
 
But this incident has me thinking. 
 
Can you separate your history from your present?  He was being deployed to tend to the mental well being of soldier who were going in to kill his people.  Yes he is Jordanian but Jordan borders Iraq and they are both Arab populations.  Was it too much to ask him to do?  He'd likely hear a lot of nasty nasty things said about Arabs by these soldiers.
 
Could you do it?  I am Jewish.  I've said before that if something happened and the US went to war with Israel that I would support the US because I am American before I am Jewish.  But could I really separate it?  Wouln't my heart just rip in two when I heard about the civilian deaths that are always caused by military invasion?  could I really and truly separate it?
 
You're Christian (general you).  Could you fight a war that would most definity cause mass Christian casualties?
 
Perhaps instead of denying American Muslims of Arab descent the right to serve their country we should think about how we let them serve their country.  Does that make sense?  If the US went to war with Israel and I was a member of the US military I would welcome the opportunity to be stationed elsewhere and do my duties outside the war zone.
 
is there a conflict of interest?
 
I hope this came across right and doesn't make me sound anti-Muslim because I think those who know me will agree that I am most definitely not.  I am doing what I tend to do which is think of the perpetrator.....(bad me!)

deborahdeborah wrote:Like Crys, I am too identified with my current country to really identify that much with any country my relatives came from.  From my end, I don't see it as an issue or problem.  Although I'm somewhat doubtful, also, that we're ever going to war with, say, Sweden.
 
Anyhow, I have read everything I can find online about the incident, and I think it's going to be a while before we get a picture of what happened (and after Pat Tillman, I wonder how full a picture we get of incidents in the first place).  I do hope people keep a lid on the Muslim panic.  The comments after a lot of the articles I've read online are frightening. 
 
I do agree with Tracey that there should be a safety valve to get people out of the military, whether or not this particular incident turns out to illustrate a need for one.  There isn't another employment contract I can think of that forces you to perform the job, rather than suffer monetary penalty.

I.Am.Who.I.am wrote:

As soon as I heard his name... I thought, "Oh boy... Muslims just can't get a break..."
 
They say this guy screamed out, "In the name of Allah!" before he started killing people. Very reminiscent of 9/11... very scary.
 
This can't be good for those out there who already have prejudicial ideas about these particular people.
 
I can tell from your post that you are not discriminating against anyone at all. Your questions are valid indeed. And being that the army was supposedly "watching" this dude and he allegedly had some suspicious things going on in his computer... I definitely feel he should've been dealt with as an individual case w/cause for concern...

  
Just wanted to point out that this is unconfirmed.  Right now people are saying that someone said that he yelled "Allahu AKbar".  Until it is confirmed its heresay.

me&zooey wrote:<span style="font-family: Arial; color: #333333; line-height: 16px;">Can you separate your history from your present?  He was being deployed to tend to the mental well being of soldier who were going in to kill his people.  Yes he is Jordanian but Jordan borders Iraq and they are both Arab populations.  Was it too much to ask him to do?  He'd likely hear a lot of nasty nasty things said about Arabs by these soldiers.

PocololoBZHost wrote:Well, everyone has a history and whether or not you(general) could handle fighting against other people (Americans, or other nationalities) is something that needs to be looked at very carefully before you(general) take that step to enter the military.  You never know what will happen.  We could end up with our own civil problems that would require you to fight against your neighbour.  It has happened before, in many places including the United States.  And the fact that the US even exists proves that people can look beyond their lineage and fight against their "people" for what they believe to be right.

PocololoBZHost wrote: 
I personally think that the military needs to have some sort of "opt out" option.  Forcing people to fight against their conscience or against their beliefs is bound to cause deep psychological issues...as we see here.  

spacecase76 wrote:

Well, everyone has a history and whether or not you(general) could handle fighting against other people (Americans, or other nationalities) is something that needs to be looked at very carefully before you(general) take that step to enter the military.  You never know what will happen.  We could end up with our own civil problems that would require you to fight against your neighbour.  It has happened before, in many places including the United States.  And the fact that the US even exists proves that people can look beyond their lineage and fight against their "people" for what they believe to be right.

 
I agree with this part.

PocololoBZHost wrote: 
I personally think that the military needs to have some sort of "opt out" option.  Forcing people to fight against their conscience or against their beliefs is bound to cause deep psychological issues...as we see here.  

 
Not to sound snarky or anything, but there is an opt out...it's called "Don't join".  US military service is voluntary....
Being in the Middle East fighting has been going on for a very long time.  I remember the Gulf War starting when I was in middle school, and our military was there for long before that war started.  IMO, muslims, middle easterners, etc. who joined the US military knew...at least in the back of their minds...that one day they could / would most likely be sent to the Middle East to fight.  They should have thought about that risk before they joined...maybe if it had been better thought out, they wouldn't join.

But people change.  My ideals at 31 are a hell of alot different than my ideals at 17.  Add that to the fact that there is no way to know what you are getting yourself in to.  War as seen on TV is much different when you are looking at the shells of the people that are returning, or when you are seeing it with your own two eyes.  I cannot even imagine.  I thought I was anti-war before, but seeing my husbands cousin come back from Iraq in a bag that only contained maybe 20 percent of his actual body made it so much more real to me.
 
And this also touches on something that I feel very strongly about...recruiting.  In order to be fair and honest I think that any military owes it to their recruits to show them what they are signing on for. Not the glorified version that the recruiters show at career day in high school, but the real deal.  The mangled and dead bodies.  Not just other soldiers, but women and children.  And if people are not old enough to drink alcohol then they are not old enough to enlist.  I dont believe anyone under the age of 21 should be allowed....and then should be given the opportunity to quit.  I dont understand how any military institution can think that those who are trapped would be efficient at their job.  And a job that means life and death no less.
 
Tracey

Utah Peach wrote:I honestly haven't ever had to think about it. But as far as fighting a war where mostly Christian casualties would occur - it's happened twice that I can think of. WWI and WWII. People of German and Japanese decent fought in WWII. They did it then....and it happens now. Doesn't make it easier or right, but this is not the first conflict where people had to fight against people "like" them. The only fight I can think of which would make me feel torn is if the US ever went to war against the UK...and I can't see that happening again.
 

spacecase76 wrote:

I honestly haven't ever had to think about it. But as far as fighting a war where mostly Christian casualties would occur - it's happened twice that I can think of. WWI and WWII. People of German and Japanese decent fought in WWII. They did it then....and it happens now. Doesn't make it easier or right, but this is not the first conflict where people had to fight against people "like" them. The only fight I can think of which would make me feel torn is if the US ever went to war against the UK...and I can't see that happening again.
 

 
what about the Civil War?

I.Am.Who.I.am wrote: 
 

But people change.  My ideals at 31 are a hell of alot different than my ideals at 17.  Add that to the fact that there is no way to know what you are getting yourself in to.  War as seen on TV is much different when you are looking at the shells of the people that are returning, or when you are seeing it with your own two eyes.  I cannot even imagine.  I thought I was anti-war before, but seeing my husbands cousin come back from Iraq in a bag that only contained maybe 20 percent of his actual body made it so much more real to me.
 
And this also touches on something that I feel very strongly about...recruiting.  In order to be fair and honest I think that any military owes it to their recruits to show them what they are signing on for. Not the glorified version that the recruiters show at career day in high school, but the real deal.  The mangled and dead bodies.  Not just other soldiers, but women and children.  And if people are not old enough to drink alcohol then they are not old enough to enlist.  I dont believe anyone under the age of 21 should be allowed....and then should be given the opportunity to quit.  I dont understand how any military institution can think that those who are trapped would be efficient at their job.  And a job that means life and death no less.
 
Tracey

 
I agree.  People change all the time.  When they sign up they are in a different place then when they're 26 or 27 and being asked to deploy for the 3rd time in 8 years.
 
I also agree about the recruiting tactics.....they need to reform those.
 
In reference to the highlighted portion....can you imagine what it is like for the young men and women whose job it is to gather the leftover body parts?
 
My best friend's brother was KIA in Najaf in August 2004.  he was green beret, army ranger, elite forces.  He was shot in the head and fell in the direction of the enemy.  His group risked their own lives to go back and pick him and the pieces up and bring him to safety.  They knelt around him until he was gone and then took him back to be sent home.
 
Can you imagine what those memories will be for those men?
 
Can people understand that someone's ability to fight a war might change after witnesses that?

me&zooey wrote:

I honestly haven't ever had to think about it. But as far as fighting a war where mostly Christian casualties would occur - it's happened twice that I can think of. WWI and WWII. People of German and Japanese decent fought in WWII. They did it then....and it happens now. Doesn't make it easier or right, but this is not the first conflict where people had to fight against people "like" them. The only fight I can think of which would make me feel torn is if the US ever went to war against the UK...and I can't see that happening again.
 

  
what about the Civil War?

  
Y'all also fought us a few times, too, ya know!  We trashed the White House! We burned it!
Then we helped fix it.

spacecase76 wrote:

 
 

But people change.  My ideals at 31 are a hell of alot different than my ideals at 17.  Add that to the fact that there is no way to know what you are getting yourself in to.  War as seen on TV is much different when you are looking at the shells of the people that are returning, or when you are seeing it with your own two eyes.  I cannot even imagine.  I thought I was anti-war before, but seeing my husbands cousin come back from Iraq in a bag that only contained maybe 20 percent of his actual body made it so much more real to me.
 
And this also touches on something that I feel very strongly about...recruiting.  In order to be fair and honest I think that any military owes it to their recruits to show them what they are signing on for. Not the glorified version that the recruiters show at career day in high school, but the real deal.  The mangled and dead bodies.  Not just other soldiers, but women and children.  And if people are not old enough to drink alcohol then they are not old enough to enlist.  I dont believe anyone under the age of 21 should be allowed....and then should be given the opportunity to quit.  I dont understand how any military institution can think that those who are trapped would be efficient at their job.  And a job that means life and death no less.
 
Tracey

  
I agree.  People change all the time.  When they sign up they are in a different place then when they're 26 or 27 and being asked to deploy for the 3rd time in 8 years.
 
I also agree about the recruiting tactics.....they need to reform those.
 
In reference to the highlighted portion....can you imagine what it is like for the young men and women whose job it is to gather the leftover body parts?
 
My best friend's brother was KIA in Najaf in August 2004.  he was green beret, army ranger, elite forces.  He was shot in the head and fell in the direction of the enemy.  His group risked their own lives to go back and pick him and the pieces up and bring him to safety.  They knelt around him until he was gone and then took him back to be sent home.
 
Can you imagine what those memories will be for those men?
 
Can people understand that someone's ability to fight a war might change after witnesses that?

  
Several things...for one, remember that I am a Military Brat, a former Army-wife, and an ex-Navy guys wife.  That probably has ALOT to do with my outlook on this.
As far as getting deployed again for the third time in 8 years....most military contracts are only 2-4 years, with the average being 3 years...especially in the beginning of your military career.  If you didn't care for your first tour, you could choose not to renew your contract.  And, it is a contract.  I don't think you should be able to quit at will.  The military spends alot of money training recruits to be soldiers.  That is why they have contracts.  They want to be assured that they are investing their money wisely.  I do think 18 is old enough to join the service.  I tried at 20, 22, 24, 25, 28, it was my lifelong plan to join the military.  Unfortunately I am medically disqualified, and horribly sad about being denied.
I know that combat and casualties will cause mental anguish for some (or rather most, but I don't want to say *all*), and I seriously think that the military is making a big effort to improve mental health services for both soldiers and their families.
I was slightly shocked to find out that the gunman (MJR whats-his-name) was a psychologist...