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WHAM
www.caringbridge.org/visit/taylorvossekuil
I saw a link to this on the website of another little girl who is dying of cancer and I have been watching her families journey, Layla Grace.
Taylor died in 2007. She would have graduated this May. Her mother would like her older sister to accept her diploma. Her sister graduated last year. The principal says that he is afraid this would take away from the other graduating students when this should be their day as well. He says that there will be an empty chair with a cap and gown to honor Taylor.
My personal observation? Looking through the pictures I feel kind of bad for the older sister. Her senior pictures she is holding a picture of her sister. In fact most of her pictures posted since the death she is honoring her sister in some way. I hope she was able to have a little of the spotlight focused on her as well. BUT it may have been her choice. Obviously they were very close in age and they appeared to be very close in pictures before Taylor died, so I might be completely out of line on this issue and I hope I am.
Also, some people have brought up the fact that Taylor isnt actually graduating. Had she been a senior about to graduate this would make more sense. But she didnt even really attend highschool, she was diagnosed her freshman year. Does that really matter though? Couldn't the school give her an honorary diploma considering the circumstances?
My opinion is that the sister should be allowed to accept this diploma. I can't understand how it would be any more distracting than an empty chair.
WDYT? Is the principal reading too much into this? How can it hurt to give this family something which is obviously important to them?
Tracey
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- by Pocomama
- Posts 12969
Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:44 am
- by Julie Bo Boolie
- Posts 4224
Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:48 am
at the risk of sounding heartless... her family needs to start moving on. I think the empty seat is a lovely gesture and already above and beyond what I'd expect the school to do for my deceased child.
- by me&zooey
- Posts 6592
Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:54 am
Julie Bo Boolie wrote:at the risk of sounding heartless... her family needs to start moving on. I think the empty seat is a lovely gesture and already above and beyond what I'd expect the school to do for my deceased child.
IA. I can also see how it could be very distracting to the other students, and personally I think it's unfair. The empty seat seems sufficient.
"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results."
--Atwood
--Atwood
- by californiabelle
- Posts 7551
Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:56 am
She didn't graduate so I don't think she should get the diploma. I think it would be nice if the school did something to remember her. A moment of silence should almost be a guarantee, but maybe if they planted a tree in her honor or something else to show that they're acknowledging her, but not a diploma.
~Megan~
- by BZCA_Alisa
- Posts 4355
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:09 am
Julie Bo Boolie wrote:at the risk of sounding heartless... her family needs to start moving on. I think the empty seat is a lovely gesture and already above and beyond what I'd expect the school to do for my deceased child.
IA the empty seat is a beautiful gesture and IMO symbolic, heartfelt and true to the situation. My heart breaks for Taylor's family but I think that the chair is the right gesture. (though I disagree with the principal, I don't think it would take away from the other graduates).
AlisaBZCA
Community Assistant Alisa.Burdman@Disney.com
Community Assistant Alisa.Burdman@Disney.com
- by Pocomama
- Posts 12969
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:14 am
I think if the school was planning on producing a diploma for Taylor then the family should be allowed to accept it. I think as long as the sister simply walked on stage and accepted it just like every other student then it wouldnt be a problem. I dont think I have enough information. However, I definitely agree that the family has to find a way to move on...although I cant even imagine how.
Tracey
Tracey
- by Ozzie*sMom
- Posts 3643
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:18 am
me&zooey wrote:at the risk of sounding heartless... her family needs to start moving on. I think the empty seat is a lovely gesture and already above and beyond what I'd expect the school to do for my deceased child.
IA. I can also see how it could be very distracting to the other students, and personally I think it's unfair. The empty seat seems sufficient.
Ditto with both ladies above.
Mama's little Rock Star
- by BritnHouston
- Posts 6339
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:44 am
I agree with everyone else. I think it is going above and beyond for the school to honor her with the empty seat with the cap.
If she would have passed on during her senior year, then I could see them making an honorary diploma and etc. Unfortunately, she passed as a freshman and wasn't even near completed with her school work.
I hope to never know the grief of loosing a child, but I really feel that her parents need to start making steps to healing and moving on. They can't live everyday thinking, "if Taylor were here, she'd be doing this, so let's celebrate or do that". Yes, they need to and should remember her, but there's is a point that you can't memorialize every aspect of what she would have been doing had she not passed on.
If she would have passed on during her senior year, then I could see them making an honorary diploma and etc. Unfortunately, she passed as a freshman and wasn't even near completed with her school work.
I hope to never know the grief of loosing a child, but I really feel that her parents need to start making steps to healing and moving on. They can't live everyday thinking, "if Taylor were here, she'd be doing this, so let's celebrate or do that". Yes, they need to and should remember her, but there's is a point that you can't memorialize every aspect of what she would have been doing had she not passed on.
~Britany
- by ErinAlanna
- Posts 2117
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:55 am
I JUST went to this carepage from Layla Grace's page and was wanting to post a topic on here on that exact subject! We are on the same page today!
I spent some time on her carepage and I feel horrible for the family of course BUT she only finished her freshman year and she passed away 2.5 years ago. I realize this may sound horrible but I don't think it's appropriate for her sister to accept a diploma on her behalf. I can totally understand the family wanting to keep her memory alive and do things to honor her memory but it seems like the inappropriate place to do it. She wasn't a senior when she passed.
I went to the page expecting to feel the same outrage as expressed in the tweets about the subject but I found myself actually kind of agreeing with the principal.
I spent some time on her carepage and I feel horrible for the family of course BUT she only finished her freshman year and she passed away 2.5 years ago. I realize this may sound horrible but I don't think it's appropriate for her sister to accept a diploma on her behalf. I can totally understand the family wanting to keep her memory alive and do things to honor her memory but it seems like the inappropriate place to do it. She wasn't a senior when she passed.
I went to the page expecting to feel the same outrage as expressed in the tweets about the subject but I found myself actually kind of agreeing with the principal.
- by watkinsme
- Posts 3068
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:01 pm
IMO I think the empty seat/cap is more than enough.
It's been 3 years since her death...if she would have been a senior I can see doing an honorary one.
I guess you have to ask when is enough...high school...where she "might have went to college"
I would think a more appropriate way to honor her would be to make a "Taylor X award" - have the family pick someone who embodies all that Taylor was and give a small scholarship....even 2-300 helps out a bunch....JMHO
It's been 3 years since her death...if she would have been a senior I can see doing an honorary one.
I guess you have to ask when is enough...high school...where she "might have went to college"
I would think a more appropriate way to honor her would be to make a "Taylor X award" - have the family pick someone who embodies all that Taylor was and give a small scholarship....even 2-300 helps out a bunch....JMHO
- by Dee-Cajungaltx
- Posts 4760
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:08 pm
I'm so glad you posted this... and that my opinion that they needed to 'move on' wasn't entirely outrageous... ;-) Cause that's what I was thinking when I read this... the empty chair was a nice thing to do... the child didn't graduate... didn't attend high school...and it's gotta be hard for the families to 'see' Taylors friends graduating and knowing that she will never do this...but how far do you take it? I
- by BritnHouston
- Posts 6339
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:12 pm
Dee-Cajungaltx wrote:I'm so glad you posted this... and that my opinion that they needed to 'move on' wasn't entirely outrageous... ;-) Cause that's what I was thinking when I read this... the empty chair was a nice thing to do... the child didn't graduate... didn't attend high school...and it's gotta be hard for the families to 'see' Taylors friends graduating and knowing that she will never do this...but how far do you take it? I
I keep thinking, are they going to decide which college she should have attended then go to that college in 4 years and demand a honorary diploma? A mock wedding? ...etc? I don't think they should forget her (that's not what I'm saying) but when do things like this stop?
~Britany
- by KaitlynsMum
- Posts 6278
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:41 pm
BritnHouston_BZCL wrote:I'm so glad you posted this... and that my opinion that they needed to 'move on' wasn't entirely outrageous... ;-) Cause that's what I was thinking when I read this... the empty chair was a nice thing to do... the child didn't graduate... didn't attend high school...and it's gotta be hard for the families to 'see' Taylors friends graduating and knowing that she will never do this...but how far do you take it? I
I keep thinking, are they going to decide which college she should have attended then go to that college in 4 years and demand a honorary diploma? A mock wedding? ...etc? I don't think they should forget her (that's not what I'm saying) but when do things like this stop?
ITA, very nice of the school to honor her with her graduating class but I don't think a diploma is appropriate and it's time for the family to move on and find acceptance.
- by Ciennasmom
- Posts 1217
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:52 pm
BritnHouston_BZCL wrote:I agree with everyone else. I think it is going above and beyond for the school to honor her with the empty seat with the cap.
If she would have passed on during her senior year, then I could see them making an honorary diploma and etc. Unfortunately, she passed as a freshman and wasn't even near completed with her school work.
I hope to never know the grief of loosing a child, but I really feel that her parents need to start making steps to healing and moving on. They can't live everyday thinking, "if Taylor were here, she'd be doing this, so let's celebrate or do that". Yes, they need to and should remember her, but there's is a point that you can't memorialize every aspect of what she would have been doing had she not passed on.
ITA!!
- by Pocomama
- Posts 12969
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:07 pm
update.... the principal has changed his mind. According to the caringbridge website he felt that Taylor would get a diploma even though she wasnt there. So with that in mind, if they were going to call her name anyways I think that someone from her family should accept the diploma. It is my understanding that the empty chair will remain, but when they call Taylors name her sister will walk up and take the diploma.
I can totally see where everyone was coming from. Where does it stop? Hopefully after this the family can start to move on. Hopefully they can live without dwelling on what Taylor would be doing now.
Tracey
I can totally see where everyone was coming from. Where does it stop? Hopefully after this the family can start to move on. Hopefully they can live without dwelling on what Taylor would be doing now.
Tracey
- by ArielnAudreysmom
- Posts 20411
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm
I didn't originally comment and haven't checked the link.
For me, it would depend on the needs of the kids in the school. If there were enough kids who were close to her or needed that kind of symbolic move, then it's the right thing to do. For example, my school was a very small school. I knew all the same kids from when I started there in 1st grade, until I graduated from 12th. In my school, something like that would have been appropriate, IMO.
On the other hand, if we are talking about a large school, in a large area, where kids really are not together from elementary through high school, then it seems like a move like this is not something helpful or needed by the kids and is just all about the parents needing to remind people about their daughter because they can't move on. Understandable, but not really appropriate, IMO.
For me, it would depend on the needs of the kids in the school. If there were enough kids who were close to her or needed that kind of symbolic move, then it's the right thing to do. For example, my school was a very small school. I knew all the same kids from when I started there in 1st grade, until I graduated from 12th. In my school, something like that would have been appropriate, IMO.
On the other hand, if we are talking about a large school, in a large area, where kids really are not together from elementary through high school, then it seems like a move like this is not something helpful or needed by the kids and is just all about the parents needing to remind people about their daughter because they can't move on. Understandable, but not really appropriate, IMO.
Danielle
Reality is known for it's liberal bias.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History (Laurel Thatcher Ulrich)
Reality is known for it's liberal bias.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History (Laurel Thatcher Ulrich)
- by NissaElf
- Posts 1128
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:34 pm
Julie Bo Boolie wrote:at the risk of sounding heartless... her family needs to start moving on. I think the empty seat is a lovely gesture and already above and beyond what I'd expect the school to do for my deceased child.
Sorry, I agree too. I think the school should do what they do for anyone under these circumstances, which I assume is the empty seat and cap. Ours did a rose and a cap at the front of the stage.
Nissa
- by threehere3there
- Posts 1962
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:04 pm
I just read an update and the principle is allowing the sister to collect the diploma. I understand the families sadness but I honestly feel that she died over 2 years ago, she didn't do any of the work to graduate, just as she won't be able to get married etc it is one of those sad things she didn't get to do, I thought when I first read that she died right before her graduation...I can't understand why she should get a garduation certificate if she didn't do the work, will they want a drivers licence for her?
I am of course sad for the family but don't agree at all that her sister collect something she did not achieve.
I am of course sad for the family but don't agree at all that her sister collect something she did not achieve.
Mum to Dan, Jordan, Sophie, Seth, Isaac and Elijah.
- by 3xBlessed
- Posts 945
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:14 pm
I am on board with the consensus here. I think if this were my child (and thankfully I really have no idea so this my not be fair), I don't think the honorary diploma would do anything for me but remind me of what my child missed out on.
Abbie, proud mommy to Jacob (4), Terese (11) and Audrey (8)
- by BZCA_Alisa
- Posts 4355
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:18 pm
This happened when I was younger.
In tenth grade a bus carrying 50 8th graders ran off the road and into a ditch in upstate NY when they were on their way home from a week in Montreal. Apparently the bus driver fell asleep. Two kids died, one of whom was the younger brother of my boyfriend at the time.
At the midle school graduation two months later they held a moment of silence for both kids and had two caps on chairs on the podium. That was it. I honestly don't know if the mothers appreciated it or wanted more.
I personally feel that putting this out on the internet and encouraging random people to email the principal was just plain wrong.
In tenth grade a bus carrying 50 8th graders ran off the road and into a ditch in upstate NY when they were on their way home from a week in Montreal. Apparently the bus driver fell asleep. Two kids died, one of whom was the younger brother of my boyfriend at the time.
At the midle school graduation two months later they held a moment of silence for both kids and had two caps on chairs on the podium. That was it. I honestly don't know if the mothers appreciated it or wanted more.
I personally feel that putting this out on the internet and encouraging random people to email the principal was just plain wrong.
AlisaBZCA
Community Assistant Alisa.Burdman@Disney.com
Community Assistant Alisa.Burdman@Disney.com
- by Pocomama
- Posts 12969
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:21 pm
BZCA_Alisa wrote:
I personally feel that putting this out on the internet and encouraging random people to email the principal was just plain wrong.
I wonder how many emails this principal received? I think I agree with you on this subject. I also think it is a very tight rope because it is hard to be honest with people who are hurting so badly.
Tracey
- by ErinAlanna
- Posts 2117
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:32 pm
Pocololo_BZCL wrote:
I personally feel that putting this out on the internet and encouraging random people to email the principal was just plain wrong.
I wonder how many emails this principal received? I think I agree with you on this subject. I also think it is a very tight rope because it is hard to be honest with people who are hurting so badly.
Tracey
I was wondering about that too. He changed his mind pretty quickly after this went to a large number of people via twitter, etc. He probably ended up just giving in because of the emails. It also said that he planned to give Taylor the diploma no matter what because he agreed with the mother that it was through "no fault of her own" that she couldn't graduate so since she was going to be receiving the diploma either way, it was ok for the sister to accept it. I thought this was kind of odd and I doubt he planned all along for her to receive the diploma but was instead trying to do what he thought he could to help a greiving family and keep himself out of the line of fire with the uproar on the internet. In the end I'm not sure how this will help them but I do feel for them.
- by me&zooey
- Posts 6592
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:40 pm
Pocololo_BZCL wrote:
I personally feel that putting this out on the internet and encouraging random people to email the principal was just plain wrong.
I wonder how many emails this principal received? I think I agree with you on this subject. I also think it is a very tight rope because it is hard to be honest with people who are hurting so badly.
Tracey
[family=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif]I wonder if this had been a suicide instead of cancer, if anyone would [/family]have emailed on behalf of the parents at all. Some deaths are more equal than others, I suspect.
"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results."
--Atwood
--Atwood
- by BritnHouston
- Posts 6339
Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:04 pm
BZCA_Alisa wrote:I personally feel that putting this out on the internet and encouraging random people to email the principal was just plain wrong.
ITA Then Layla's mom twittered the email address (she has over 33,000 followers)! I'm sure it is an accumulative count from whenever the Caring Bridge page was first started but Taylor's page has had almost 700,000 visitors!
So A LOT of people have that principal's email address.
~Britany
- by mltmajor08
- Posts 875
Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:29 pm
Julie Bo Boolie wrote:at the risk of sounding heartless... her family needs to start moving on. I think the empty seat is a lovely gesture and already above and beyond what I'd expect the school to do for my deceased child.
ITA!
I kinda feel bad for the living daughter, kinda like the attention is being taken off of her on HER day. I dont want to sound heartless either, but the deceased daughter was not the only child, they have this child that they need to be thinking of now IMO.