risk for autism and schizophrenia reported now for H1N1 vac : Hot Topics

Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:56 am

I know that H1N1 vaccine is a hot topic. I don't mean to create a stir, I just really feel people need to to see this because this board certified neurosurgeon just came out saying that in the neurological journals it is saying that it is the cytokin immune response that causes abnormalities in babies. Whenever your body has it's immune system stimulated, it's the response that actually affects the babies and increases risk for autism and schizophrenia by 7-14times....and developmental/behavioral problems.

Any immune response in the mother can cause abnormalities in babies, the virus doesn't cross to the baby when you're pregnant. If you get the vaccine, you get a powerful immune stimulant...which increases the risk for the baby for autism and schizophrenia by 7-14x, and developmental/behavioral problems. The typical OBGYN doesn't know this because they don't read the neurological science journals. This Dr. is a neurosurgeon and is reporting on the science journals. They are recommending 2 flu shots, 1 H1N1, and 1 meningicoccal vaccines during pregnancy right now...4 major immune stimulant shots.

Please view this link:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/03/What-We-Have-Learned-About-the-Great-Swine-Flu-Pandemic.aspx

And if this link is disabled, go to Mercola.com and search for:
[color=#333333; font-family: Arial; font-size: 18px; line-height: 20px]Swine Flu -- One of the Most Massive Cover-ups in American HistoryPosted by: Dr. Mercola
[/color]

Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:01 pm

thanks for sharing

Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:06 pm

The link isn't working. : (

Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:12 pm

I've always found it interesting that my son who has autism was the only child born after I had the flu one year, during his pregnancy. I even posted about it on the SN board.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:08 pm

I would worry about this more if it wasn't written by someone clearly advocating for natural health. The interesting thing about studies of any type is that you will always be able to find one to promote your ideals if you look for one. I am experiencing that currently while people are pushing their natural childbirth views on me.

Also, the link said that the 7-14x risk is if you get the vaccine in late second trimester and third trimester.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:32 pm

maybaby10 wrote:Also, the link said that the 7-14x risk is if you get the vaccine in late second trimester and third trimester.

From my understanding, that's when most OBs are pushing it....

Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:27 pm

spacecase76 wrote:
Also, the link said that the 7-14x risk is if you get the vaccine in late second trimester and third trimester.

From my understanding, that's when most OBs are pushing it....

I think I've seen a few people on this board mention that too.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:53 pm

My OB started pushing it at my 5 week appointment.

I don't know, the article was just a bit too propaganda-ish to me. I went through some other articles on the site and they were of similar nature. The title of it screamed "this is a stretch" to me. And the H1N1 vaccine is new, how could you say that shizophrenia is a risk? Schizophrenia is rarely reported in children and most medical professionals would not diagnose a child with schizophrenia without overwhelming evidence. I would not believe that any one substance could be the cause of schizophrenia because it is much more likely that any child would not have it so it would be unlikely that I would believe that the substance could cause it.

I will admit that I felt the same about the fact that people die every year just from the regular flu so I probably shouldn't worry about it, but just as this article states, it affects people with underlying conditions fatally more often than others. I have asthma, so even having read this article, I don't regret getting the vaccine. And I really won't ever lose a wink of sleep believing that one of my babies will have schizophrenia because of it. Just my opinion though!!

Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:23 pm

That is bunk, honestly.

The immune stimulus discussed is caused by adjuvants. There are no adjuvants in the flu vaccination.

The author has triangulated an incorrect answer.

Adjuvants like squalene cause strong immune response. The primary symptoms of a cytokine storm are high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea. In some cases the immune reaction may be fatal.

Flu infection can cause cytokine storm immune response.

Adjuvants are found in some immunizations (not the USA flu shot).

He added those 3 things together to tell an incomplete story. He drew lines between facts that should not exist.

You are more likely to have a cytokine storm response from actual infection. All of the "tests" done have been with a LIVE VIRUS vaccination (which they do NOT recommend for pregnancy). So, when they test the LIVE VIRUS in MICE and those mice have a cytokine response that means nothing for humans receiving a non-adjuvant containing dead-virus vaccination.

Your risks are HIGHER if you get the actual flu for any complications. This is why the vaccine is recommended for pregnancy. Also, the H1N1 vaccination is identical to a seasonal flu vaccine in every way except the virus contained within it. So, this is not a "new" set of lies at all.

Its all bunk and scare tactics.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:23 pm

*Deep, tired sigh* Can't we debate something a little less caustic and inflammatory? Like, oh I dunno--abortion? Religion?

Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:35 pm

Meg-a-la-Mama wrote:*Deep, tired sigh* Can't we debate something a little less caustic and inflammatory? Like, oh I dunno--abortion? Religion?

abortion and religion are totally not funny, but I so LOL'd at this...

I agree that swine flu discussion is just going round in circles, and I'm bored to death with it.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:41 pm

Wow, what a misleading post title.

Smacks of pseudo-science to me, and someone with an agenda. I don't have anything against natural medicine. I do have an issue with falsely creating a link between a new vaccine and autism and schizophrenia... I don't know about the US, but Canada has just started vaccinating a week or so ago. Unless the children who took the vaccine in clinical trials have suddenly grown up and become schizophrenics? I'm not sure how that can be related so soon. If it's linked to flu vaccines, or adjuvanted vaccines... fine, say that. But don't say the H1N1 vaccine because that would be sensationalism and lead people like me to blow it off as not worth my time even investigating.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:45 pm

Rachel wrote:That is bunk, honestly.
The immune stimulus discussed is caused by adjuvants. There are no adjuvants in the flu vaccination.
The author has triangulated an incorrect answer.
Adjuvants like squalene cause strong immune response. The primary symptoms of a cytokine storm are high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea. In some cases the immune reaction may be fatal.
Flu infection can cause cytokine storm immune response.
Adjuvants are found in some immunizations (not the USA flu shot).
He added those 3 things together to tell an incomplete story. He drew lines between facts that should not exist.
You are more likely to have a cytokine storm response from actual infection. All of the "tests" done have been with a LIVE VIRUS vaccination (which they do NOT recommend for pregnancy). So, when they test the LIVE VIRUS in MICE and those mice have a cytokine response that means nothing for humans receiving a non-adjuvant containing dead-virus vaccination.
Your risks are HIGHER if you get the actual flu for any complications. This is why the vaccine is recommended for pregnancy. Also, the H1N1 vaccination is identical to a seasonal flu vaccine in every way except the virus contained within it. So, this is not a "new" set of lies at all.
Its all bunk and scare tactics.

Totally not debatable but I really enjoyed readin you post and appreciate the information in it

Also Canada is using a vaccine with the adjuvant squalene and although they did order a non adjuvanted vaccine for pregnant woman, to be available in a few weeks, they are reccomneding that woman over 20 weeks get the adjuvanted one now if they are in a "high risk environment" such as an area with a large % of infected people.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:56 am

M&M'smom wrote:
That is bunk, honestly.
The immune stimulus discussed is caused by adjuvants. There are no adjuvants in the flu vaccination.
The author has triangulated an incorrect answer.
Adjuvants like squalene cause strong immune response. The primary symptoms of a cytokine storm are high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea. In some cases the immune reaction may be fatal.
Flu infection can cause cytokine storm immune response.
Adjuvants are found in some immunizations (not the USA flu shot).
He added those 3 things together to tell an incomplete story. He drew lines between facts that should not exist.
You are more likely to have a cytokine storm response from actual infection. All of the "tests" done have been with a LIVE VIRUS vaccination (which they do NOT recommend for pregnancy). So, when they test the LIVE VIRUS in MICE and those mice have a cytokine response that means nothing for humans receiving a non-adjuvant containing dead-virus vaccination.
Your risks are HIGHER if you get the actual flu for any complications. This is why the vaccine is recommended for pregnancy. Also, the H1N1 vaccination is identical to a seasonal flu vaccine in every way except the virus contained within it. So, this is not a "new" set of lies at all.
Its all bunk and scare tactics.

Totally not debatable but I really enjoyed readin you post and appreciate the information in it

Also Canada is using a vaccine with the adjuvant squalene and although they did order a non adjuvanted vaccine for pregnant woman, to be available in a few weeks, they are reccomneding that woman over 20 weeks get the adjuvanted one now if they are in a "high risk environment" such as an area with a large % of infected people.

Over my dead body would I get a vaccine with Squalene in it while pregnant. I'd take my chances on the real-deal. No wonder the Canucks are freaking.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:51 am

I post the original research articles on another thead.

No one can call it bunk because the reality is..they don't know what the effects are. But we will be finding out in the years to come since the recommendations as they are dping research. So hence, when you do them, you are taking the risk of the unknown.


Abnormal expression of myelination genes and alterations in white matter fractional anisotropy following prenatal viral influenza infection at E16 in mice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487109

Prenatal viral infection in mouse causes differential expression of genes in brains of mouse progeny: a potential animal model for schizophrenia and autism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15906383

"This science is being inappropriately used to target pregnant women for early flu vaccination. I wrote these researchers, saying their studies are a tacit admission that vaccines could potentially induce brain disorders in the womb since the vaccines ARE the virus, or at least less active forms of the flu virus (the nasally-instilled flu vaccine IS the “live” virus). Show the public the gene expression patterns in fetal mice exposed to the flu vaccine. This is an experiment they don’t conduct. "-Lew Rockwell.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:01 am

~julieann~ wrote:I post the original research articles on another thead.

Yes, and when you posted them, I pointed out that these are studies not of vaccines, but of exposure to the H1N1 live virus. Pregnant women are advised to get the dead virus injection. Saying that these studies are either of the H1N1 vaccine is completely misleading (and, also, untrue).

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:39 am

Rachel wrote:
That is bunk, honestly.
The immune stimulus discussed is caused by adjuvants. There are no adjuvants in the flu vaccination.
The author has triangulated an incorrect answer.
Adjuvants like squalene cause strong immune response. The primary symptoms of a cytokine storm are high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea. In some cases the immune reaction may be fatal.
Flu infection can cause cytokine storm immune response.
Adjuvants are found in some immunizations (not the USA flu shot).
He added those 3 things together to tell an incomplete story. He drew lines between facts that should not exist.
You are more likely to have a cytokine storm response from actual infection. All of the "tests" done have been with a LIVE VIRUS vaccination (which they do NOT recommend for pregnancy). So, when they test the LIVE VIRUS in MICE and those mice have a cytokine response that means nothing for humans receiving a non-adjuvant containing dead-virus vaccination.
Your risks are HIGHER if you get the actual flu for any complications. This is why the vaccine is recommended for pregnancy. Also, the H1N1 vaccination is identical to a seasonal flu vaccine in every way except the virus contained within it. So, this is not a "new" set of lies at all.
Its all bunk and scare tactics.

Totally not debatable but I really enjoyed readin you post and appreciate the information in it

Also Canada is using a vaccine with the adjuvant squalene and although they did order a non adjuvanted vaccine for pregnant woman, to be available in a few weeks, they are reccomneding that woman over 20 weeks get the adjuvanted one now if they are in a "high risk environment" such as an area with a large % of infected people.

Over my dead body would I get a vaccine with Squalene in it while pregnant. I'd take my chances on the real-deal. No wonder the Canucks are freaking.

Um... we're not freaking out. Not quite sure where you heard that. Health Canada has been quite open about saying that adjuvented vaccines have not been tested appropriately in pregnant women which is why they ordered the unadjuvented stock. They do not know whether there would be side effects, though no [peer-reviewed, reliable] evidence shows any. It's right on the Health Canada website that they are recommending pregnant women get unadjuvented, and they say openly that there isn't really any safety data with the adjuvented vaccine, but are recommending that women over 20 weeks *consider* the adjuvented if they are in an area with a lot of flu.

Also, humans naturally produce squalene. It is not exactly a foreign compound to our bodies.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:05 am

Deborah:
Thank you for pointing that out. Almost all of her statements are misleading and the supporting articles leave out important information.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:41 am

PaganKay wrote:
That is bunk, honestly.
The immune stimulus discussed is caused by adjuvants. There are no adjuvants in the flu vaccination.
The author has triangulated an incorrect answer.
Adjuvants like squalene cause strong immune response. The primary symptoms of a cytokine storm are high fever, swelling and redness, extreme fatigue and nausea. In some cases the immune reaction may be fatal.
Flu infection can cause cytokine storm immune response.
Adjuvants are found in some immunizations (not the USA flu shot).
He added those 3 things together to tell an incomplete story. He drew lines between facts that should not exist.
You are more likely to have a cytokine storm response from actual infection. All of the "tests" done have been with a LIVE VIRUS vaccination (which they do NOT recommend for pregnancy). So, when they test the LIVE VIRUS in MICE and those mice have a cytokine response that means nothing for humans receiving a non-adjuvant containing dead-virus vaccination.
Your risks are HIGHER if you get the actual flu for any complications. This is why the vaccine is recommended for pregnancy. Also, the H1N1 vaccination is identical to a seasonal flu vaccine in every way except the virus contained within it. So, this is not a "new" set of lies at all.
Its all bunk and scare tactics.

Totally not debatable but I really enjoyed readin you post and appreciate the information in it

Also Canada is using a vaccine with the adjuvant squalene and although they did order a non adjuvanted vaccine for pregnant woman, to be available in a few weeks, they are reccomneding that woman over 20 weeks get the adjuvanted one now if they are in a "high risk environment" such as an area with a large % of infected people.

Over my dead body would I get a vaccine with Squalene in it while pregnant. I'd take my chances on the real-deal. No wonder the Canucks are freaking.

Um... we're not freaking out. Not quite sure where you heard that. Health Canada has been quite open about saying that adjuvented vaccines have not been tested appropriately in pregnant women which is why they ordered the unadjuvented stock. They do not know whether there would be side effects, though no [peer-reviewed, reliable] evidence shows any. It's right on the Health Canada website that they are recommending pregnant women get unadjuvented, and they say openly that there isn't really any safety data with the adjuvented vaccine, but are recommending that women over 20 weeks *consider* the adjuvented if they are in an area with a lot of flu.
Also, humans naturally produce squalene. It is not exactly a foreign compound to our bodies.

-----

I am also Canadian and agree completely with the above, no freaking out here. I am 37 weeks pregnant and chose to get the adjuvanted vaccine not only to protect myself but also to pass on some immunity to the baby since he will be born in flu season. It was strongly recommended by my doctor (whom I have trusted with every other aspect of my pregnancy so I do with this as well) and I have no issues with the vaccine at all. Squalene (or shark liver oil) not only occurs naturally in our own bodies, but has been used in millions of vaccines as an adjuvant around the world. Heck, shark liver oil is the main ingredient in preparation H and I have no problem putting that up into my body when the pain of pregnancy hemmroids gets to be too much! In my city over 200,000 people were vaccinated within the first week of it being available, nearly 20% of the population and a GREAT many of those were pregnant women and young children. There is really no freaking out here. Women under 20 weeks pregnant are waiting for the unadjuvanted vaccine for the most part due to the risk that the booster (adjuvant) could add to the risk of pre term labour due to an overimmune response, but women over 20 weeks have been lining up for the adjuvanted one. I had it and had literally no immune response whatsoever, I felt nothing. After getting it the only thing I experienced was an overwhelming feeling of "THAT'S what all the fuss was about???".

Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:55 pm

I'd just like to point out that after reading this article I checked on a few of the studies the author "referenced" and these studies were done on rats......

I'm sorry, but unless his article is based on real human data, I don't want to hear it. A rats biology is obviously different than a human's biology, and as a result vaccines are going to have different effects on both species.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:16 pm

I did read something within the last year that preg. women who had the flu's babies were more likely to develop schizophrenia later in life.. maybe there's something to it..

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:31 pm

Jilly10340 wrote:I'd just like to point out that after reading this article I checked on a few of the studies the author "referenced" and these studies were done on rats......

I'm sorry, but unless his article is based on real human data, I don't want to hear it. A rats biology is obviously different than a human's biology, and as a result vaccines are going to have different effects on both species.

Your aren't serious are you? That's what they test vaccines on..rats, hamsters,gerbils, monkeys and they wait to see what happens before they inject it into a person.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:06 pm

I find it interesting that my son who has the autism dx is the only one of my children who I have ever gotten the regular flu shot for, I have never even gotten it, I even hesitated for him saying I'd just treat the symptoms, but the dr and nursed pushed it so he got it. He was very sick for 3-4 months following that slew of shots(MMR incl). No infections or fevers, just virus after virus after virus. He also does not have asthma but had to get breathing treatments 4 times a day...if you've never given that to a 1 yr old...it is not fun. This post does not surprise me, and I feel pretty bad for the people who just go w/ the flow buying into whatever the gov't pushes at them.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:22 pm

M&M'smom wrote:

Also Canada is using a vaccine with the adjuvant squalene and although they did order a non adjuvanted vaccine for pregnant woman, to be available in a few weeks, they are reccomneding that woman over 20 weeks get the adjuvanted one now if they are in a "high risk environment" such as an area with a large % of infected people.

Yep... both of my girls had it over the weekend. The non adjuvant is not available yet. The kids also need to go back after 3 weeks for a second dose.

I was scared of the vaccine after reading of bunch of articles found online. Then I started to listen to doctors who made total sense and explained in details and gave clear information and decided that it was safe and I would not take the chance of my kids getting the flu/complications from it.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:13 pm

Jilly10340 wrote:I'd just like to point out that after reading this article I checked on a few of the studies the author "referenced" and these studies were done on rats......

I'm sorry, but unless his article is based on real human data, I don't want to hear it. A rats biology is obviously different than a human's biology, and as a result vaccines are going to have different effects on both species.

They do most initial drug testing on rats. It saves them possibly killing off lots of people. There are other valid reasons for testing on rats too...

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risk for autism and schizophrenia reported now for H1N1 vac