Teenagers: Cutting

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:28 am

Some of the old timers will remember a post I made over a year ago, about a girl accusing Tori (my 12 year old) of pulling up her shirt and some other stuff. My husband and I sat down with Tori, talked to her, she said - No, No, No. None of it happened.

So - my husband being the confrontational person that he is.... we picked up Tori after church, and drove over to the girls house, to have a sit down discussion with her and her parents. She hid, didn't want to talk....would talk to her parents out of the room....that was it.

Brad and I made the decision NOT to have her over to our house, or to allow Tori to stay at her house overnight. We were concerned about manipulative behavior on her part (long term issues with another girl in Tori's class) and we just didn't want Tori getting more involved in that than she needed to be.

Since then, Tori has told us things here and there - things like K never talks in class....if she has to read outloud, she does it VERY, VERY softly. She doesn't participate in things...just real withdrawn.

Fast forward to three weeks ago. Tori tells me that K has this wrist band that she wears all the time....and when she pulled it down, she had these cuts underneath it.

Tori said K told her that it was just scratches - but Tori was concerned enough that her and another friend went to the principal at the school. Small school, if they see the principal at Walmart, they are saying 'Hi! and talking to him for a while before we drag them away...*grin*

The principal called the parents...to talk to them. The parents told K that if she did it once more, she was going to the hospital.

She did, and they sent her somewhere to get some help. Whereever it was, she had access to a cell phone, because she was texting Tori. She was supposed to be back at school on Monday, but she cut her wrist with her dad's knife or razor...Tori wasn't sure, on Saturday, and was readmitted to the hospital.

The school hasn't notified ANY of this. The kids all know about it though.

Tori was telling me about it last night - I knew about the first incident, but didn't know that she'd continued to do it, and was pulled out of school, or that she was getting some help...none of it.

Tori has rules for her cell phone/texting - her grade, one higher/lower - and that's it. But having a friend who is getting help, texting her to talk to her....versus where ever she is at....is a bit worrying.

Tori told me last night that she was frustrated (Tori) because they attend a Christian school, where everyone is SUPPOSED to be a Christian (which to her, means you do the 'right' thing) but the only person, other than K's mom, and the doctors who have told her to STOP cutting, is Tori. The other 'so called' friends just don't care.

Which plays into K's issues as well. She's not popular...her and Tori are about the same size...which is way taller than every other kid in the class...but where Tori looks at it as a positive (basketball)...K just seems to be more ostracized.

Do you think the school has any responsibility to notify the parents that there are some issues occurring (not specific to a person) that might need to be addressed (mental health issues, cutting, etc)with their child? I'm really lucky - Tori LOVES to come sit and talk to me...and as long as she's not giving me play by play on the latest Smallville Episode *eye roll* ... I love it. But she only said something last night about K...and it's been going on for more than a week...which means Tori's been getting texts for that long...and I'm not entirely comfortable with that idea.

But at the same time...I don't want to tell Tori to cut ties with her, because the girl probably needs all the friends she has...

This one is a new situation....any suggestions, feedback...experience?

Despite multiple divorces, and some seriously screwed up parents...we've managed to get a pretty level headed 'pre-teen'.... I'd like to keep her that way if possible...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:46 am

I honestly don't think parents need to be notified. As long as her parents are handling it, that is all that matters. If she chooses to share that info or her parents do, that is their business.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:53 am

Dee-Cajungaltx wrote:Do you think the school has any responsibility to notify the parents that there are some issues occurring (not specific to a person) that might need to be addressed (mental health issues, cutting, etc)with their child? I'm really lucky - Tori LOVES to come sit and talk to me...and as long as she's not giving me play by play on the latest Smallville Episode *eye roll* ... I love it. But she only said something last night about K...and it's been going on for more than a week...which means Tori's been getting texts for that long...and I'm not entirely comfortable with that idea.
But at the same time...I don't want to tell Tori to cut ties with her, because the girl probably needs all the friends she has...
This one is a new situation....any suggestions, feedback...experience?
Despite multiple divorces, and some seriously screwed up parents...we've managed to get a pretty level headed 'pre-teen'.... I'd like to keep her that way if possible...

The school is not allowed to contact you and tell you that things are happening. Even not saying the students name is over the line especially if everyone knows who it is.

It's a tough one. I think that I may limit my daughters expose. She is 12 and although this is her friend and she doesn't want to abondon her friend, she's still only 12. That's pretty heavy stuff for someone to deal with at an older age. You also don't want to totally ignore it because it is something that is happening. It's such a tough balance between keeping them safe and not totally sheltering them. Could Tori talk to a school councler about this?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:09 pm

Dee-Cajungaltx wrote:Some of the old timers will remember a post I made over a year ago, about a girl accusing Tori (my 12 year old) of pulling up her shirt and some other stuff. My husband and I sat down with Tori, talked to her, she said - No, No, No. None of it happened.
So - my husband being the confrontational person that he is.... we picked up Tori after church, and drove over to the girls house, to have a sit down discussion with her and her parents. She hid, didn't want to talk....would talk to her parents out of the room....that was it.
Brad and I made the decision NOT to have her over to our house, or to allow Tori to stay at her house overnight. We were concerned about manipulative behavior on her part (long term issues with another girl in Tori's class) and we just didn't want Tori getting more involved in that than she needed to be.
Since then, Tori has told us things here and there - things like K never talks in class....if she has to read outloud, she does it VERY, VERY softly. She doesn't participate in things...just real withdrawn.
Fast forward to three weeks ago. Tori tells me that K has this wrist band that she wears all the time....and when she pulled it down, she had these cuts underneath it.
Tori said K told her that it was just scratches - but Tori was concerned enough that her and another friend went to the principal at the school. Small school, if they see the principal at Walmart, they are saying 'Hi! and talking to him for a while before we drag them away...*grin*
The principal called the parents...to talk to them. The parents told K that if she did it once more, she was going to the hospital.
She did, and they sent her somewhere to get some help. Whereever it was, she had access to a cell phone, because she was texting Tori. She was supposed to be back at school on Monday, but she cut her wrist with her dad's knife or razor...Tori wasn't sure, on Saturday, and was readmitted to the hospital.
The school hasn't notified ANY of this. The kids all know about it though.
Tori was telling me about it last night - I knew about the first incident, but didn't know that she'd continued to do it, and was pulled out of school, or that she was getting some help...none of it.
Tori has rules for her cell phone/texting - her grade, one higher/lower - and that's it. But having a friend who is getting help, texting her to talk to her....versus where ever she is at....is a bit worrying.
Tori told me last night that she was frustrated (Tori) because they attend a Christian school, where everyone is SUPPOSED to be a Christian (which to her, means you do the 'right' thing) but the only person, other than K's mom, and the doctors who have told her to STOP cutting, is Tori. The other 'so called' friends just don't care.
Which plays into K's issues as well. She's not popular...her and Tori are about the same size...which is way taller than every other kid in the class...but where Tori looks at it as a positive (basketball)...K just seems to be more ostracized.
Do you think the school has any responsibility to notify the parents that there are some issues occurring (not specific to a person) that might need to be addressed (mental health issues, cutting, etc)with their child? I'm really lucky - Tori LOVES to come sit and talk to me...and as long as she's not giving me play by play on the latest Smallville Episode *eye roll* ... I love it. But she only said something last night about K...and it's been going on for more than a week...which means Tori's been getting texts for that long...and I'm not entirely comfortable with that idea.
But at the same time...I don't want to tell Tori to cut ties with her, because the girl probably needs all the friends she has...
This one is a new situation....any suggestions, feedback...experience?
Despite multiple divorces, and some seriously screwed up parents...we've managed to get a pretty level headed 'pre-teen'.... I'd like to keep her that way if possible...

I'm pretty sure that their privacy is more important than telling other parents. If there was a problem with your child, then of course they should be discussing it with you, but not when it does not involve your child. Unless it is a sickness that is contagious, in which case you usually get a canned letter and never are told who had it. I think if you are concerned about who she is texting, maybe you should occasionally check her phone out if you can't trust her. Or if you can't trust that she is telling you things you need to know, then take the phone. It sounds like she was just trying to be a good friend to her, so I'm not sure why you are upset...unless it is just that she didn't tell you that any of it was going on. It sounds like you have a pretty open relationship with her, which is good. I don't think I would be overly concerned at this point.

***ETA I just wanted to add....this might be a very good time to discuss cutting with her. Do some research and tell her about it. Why people do it and why it is important that they get help. She is doing the right thing, but might need someone to share the burden with. From the sounds of it, she is one of the only people who the girl is talking to about it. Let her know that she can talk to you and decide what the right thing is to do before she talks to K.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:10 pm

Nope. If it were my child and word was getting out I'd be livid. It's bad enough dealing with the issues as they are.. having everyone know it would make it even worse IMO.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:25 pm

The only thing I could see the school doing, with the other girl's parents' permission, is having the kids make get well cards or something like that to send to her during her extended absence. It might give the kids some sympathy to see this as an illness, and if it's homework, it could be a way to start a dialog with their parents. The condition wouldn't need to be discussed at school. I'm not even sure if it's allowed, but in school when kids were out for a long time, we made them cards. Of course, that was 30yrs ago.

You could have Tori send her a card, it might mean a lot to get actual mail, and it would be a way for Tori to do "something" for her friend.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm

Cutting isn't contagious, so, I'd say no other parents need to be notified.

I've never understood cutting. The girl they hired to replace me at reception used to be a cutter. She has lots of scars. I saw it one day and asked her about it, she just said she "used to be stupid". I, of course didn't press. I just think that this little girl needs her friends, and needs to know that someone still cares. She will most likely regret it later in life. I hope her parents continue with her counseling after she is released from the hospital. It definitely seems like a cry for help / attention to me.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:49 pm

spacecase76 wrote:Cutting isn't contagious, so, I'd say no other parents need to be notified.
I've never understood cutting. The girl they hired to replace me at reception used to be a cutter. She has lots of scars. I saw it one day and asked her about it, she just said she "used to be stupid". I, of course didn't press. I just think that this little girl needs her friends, and needs to know that someone still cares. She will most likely regret it later in life. I hope her parents continue with her counseling after she is released from the hospital. It definitely seems like a cry for help / attention to me.

From what I've heard (and I'm sure there are a million different reasons why) some cut themselves because they say that they want to have a feeling of control. They can't control other things in their life, but they can cut themselves and nobody can stop them. I've also heard that some cut because they feel numb in other areas of their life, and it lets them "feel something". I've always viewed it as a cry for help and attention. It's very sad.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:50 pm

No, the school does not have a responsiblity to share something private with other parents. In fact, the opposite. It's really nobody's business. If your concern is with the texting between the girl and Tori, then it's up to you to do something about it re: screen her texts, remove her phone, etc. But the school has no obligation to you.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:51 pm

Julie Bo Boolie wrote:Nope. If it were my child and word was getting out I'd be livid. It's bad enough dealing with the issues as they are.. having everyone know it would make it even worse IMO.

ITA!!

Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:18 pm

I don't think the parents of the other students need to be notified. Like PP said, it isn't contagious. I do think it's a good idea (like another PP said) that the other students make cards for her since she's in the hospital. They don't have to know WHY she's there, just that she's getting help.

As far as understanding why people cut, it's probably different for everyone. I used to have a problem with hitting myself -- which I have somewhat controlled now. Basically, I would get so frustrated / upset, and didn't know how to express my feelings in a healthy way. So instead of screaming loudly, or punching a pillow, I'd hit/pinch myself. I was always a very quiet, reserved girl, and I didn't like the attention it would create if I yelled, so I'd hurt myself in a place that people wouldn't see (legs, for instance). Maybe that's why the girl is covering it up with a wristband. I wouldn't say that I was doing it for attention, because I didn't want anyone to know. I just didn't know how to let off steam before I boiled over.

Wow, I don't think I've told anyone that before.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:27 pm

This is hard for me to admit to the BZ crowed because you all are the only ones who can't see the scars all over my body. I had a massive problem with cutting for almost 2 years. I think K is probably very depressed. Chances are she has a lot more going on than just being made fun of at school. The reason I cut myself was because I was totally at rock bottom. I have always had a chemical imbalance, and it seemed like everything in my life sucked too. I was realizing how much I HATED my mother. I was suicidal. I would start cutting with the intent to kill myself but I would always chicken out. Then it became a habit. I would get SO upset that I would turn my problems into life or death. The most extreme thing you can do is take a blade to your vein, if you don't go through with it, then its time to lay down and go to sleep. Then your mind can rest. Even though its hard and embarrassing for me to talk about I feel like I can explain it in a way that people can understand. K needs a good therapist. A support group would also be great because she may not even understand where all of this pain is coming from and talking to people who have similar problems can help you identify your own. I would not keep Tori from talking to her she needs a friend. And no one else at the school needs to know. I understand your concern that the kids aren't nice to her but they are going to be immature kids and I would be afraid they would provoke her further.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:56 pm

Tori has a class size of 26 7th grade kids - they ALL know. The kid that farted for 20 seconds in 7th grade math and got an infraction....the kids ALL knew about that by the end of the day.

The kids that know this girl, know that she's doing it, and know she's at a hospital getting help. And they know WHY she's there.

The problem, to me, is that all the kids know, and if Tori wasn't willing to talk to me about it - then I would have no idea that the kids have this issue as something going on in their group of 7th graders.

The information that she had, was based on 7th grade conversations....with other 7th graders....and a girl who needs serious help. It's not a good source of information.

Tori and I talked about cutting - why people did it - why they thought it was needed - and that in most cases, the people that did it ALWAYS need to get help from someone who is an adult who is educated to deal with mental issues.

It's NOT a trust issue - Tori is an amazingly good kid. We have rules, she gets spot checked, and if she steps out of line then there are repurcussions (like losing her cell phone)...and trust me...living with the rules we've set is way less restrictive than living without the items we set rules for.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:22 pm

I am not familiar with exactly the extent to which medical and academic privacy policies cover private schools, but I expect the school can't pass on information about a student even if it wanted to.

Should it? I don't think so. The fact that people gossip is one thing. Certainly it might be helpful for the school to have general workshops/assemblies about common teen issues like eating disorders and cutting. The school formally disseminating person information about an individual student? No. And were I that girl's parents, and the school did so, I'd be livid.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:01 pm

From the OP, I would say that there is more than one issue going on with this young lady. First the shirt incident, then hiding in her room rather than talking in the open, then the classroom behaviors, now cutting. This is probably going to sound more harsh than intended, but I think that I would have my daughter cut direct ties with the girl for a while, at least until she (the girl who is cutting) gets to a better mental/emotional place. Your daughter is only 12! These issues are WAY TOO BIG for a 12 year old to handle, even indirectly. The child who is cutting is getting professional help....it's the 26 other kids in her class who are wondering and confused--even if they are not "exhibiting" the confusion, it is sure to be there. I mean, we are adults and WE ARE confused too. For those reasons, I would gently steer my daughter away from direct contact. Your daughter cannot "save" this girl, but she can be there when the girl is recovered and feeling stronger.

JMO.

ETA: Also, no, the school has no responsibility to inform you of anything. Sorry, but not your business.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:02 pm

I attended a small private school for 1st-8th. In 6th grade, one of the students got in an accident & ended up in a coma. Of course, we all knew but we didn't know the facts. It was very scary for us all. The school approached the girls parents & they were invited to come talk to us and our parents. It was nice. We were able to get facts, as were our parents. I think it would be nice if the school were to offer that to the parents, but they don't have to. It would be nice if maybe the school, as part of health class, had a local professional come in to talk about different issues that teens face health wise. Such as depression, STD's (I know it's a Christian school but that doesn't mean they aren't having sex!), drugs, drinking, cutting, eating disorders, etc.

However, the school has no obligation to notify parents of a problem like this. It isn't like lice, you can't catch it!

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:42 pm

deborahdeborah wrote:I am not familiar with exactly the extent to which medical and academic privacy policies cover private schools, but I expect the school can't pass on information about a student even if it wanted to.

Should it? I don't think so. The fact that people gossip is one thing. Certainly it might be helpful for the school to have general workshops/assemblies about common teen issues like eating disorders and cutting. The school formally disseminating person information about an individual student? No. And were I that girl's parents, and the school did so, I'd be livid.

Agreed..completely.

If the 7th grade class were having "cutting" sessions in the restroom, then yes, the parents should be notified. But notified of an individual students private trauma? How do you know that NONE of the other kids has talked to their parents..perhaps they are being discreet about it. I think it is up to that person and her parents to decide who to disclose to and what support is needed.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:43 pm

*~*Granola~Flutterby*~* wrote:However, the school has no obligation to notify parents of a problem like this. It isn't like lice, you can't catch it!

I agree - it definitely isn't like lice. *grin* But I don't want to set Tori up to be this young lady's 'dumping' ground... Tori has a great heart....when she found out her dad and Step mom were divorcing, her concern wasn't for her - it was for her 3 siblings...she didn't want them to grow up with divorced parents like she did.

I'm going to talk with one of my friends about the situation that teaches at the school and get her feedback on it.

Thank you!

Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:26 pm

I would contact the parents and let them know that their daughter is texting yours. While in a mental health program you have to earn the right to have access to certain items. She might have it with or with out the staffs permission. either wya I would let them know the content of the texts becuase they are important to the girls recovery and treatment.

Even if *everyone* already knows the school can't disclose the issue due to privacy fo the student, but maybe you can ask for an assembly on cutting and other stress disorders that can affect young people: hair pulling, eating disorders,ect. That way the situation can be proactive and maybe help this girl be better understood by her peers.and get some support. At the very least it will help educate the kids and helpt hem be a "tory" and know when to tell if someone is doing self harm.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:16 pm

BlueEyedButtercup wrote:I honestly don't think parents need to be notified. As long as her parents are handling it, that is all that matters. If she chooses to share that info or her parents do, that is their business.

What she said. Saying that because kids will talk and everyone will know doesn't provide an excuse for the school to betray her privacy.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:56 am

I actually think it would be a pretty big invasion of privacy if the school were to tell everyone in the community (even without releasing names) about incidents like this. It's a private matter. And self-mutilation is a deep and complex issue - no amount of kids telling her it's uncool or to stop, is going to make her stop. She needs professional help. Hopefully she is getting that.

This girl is likely cutting b/c she doesn't know where she fits in, and feels like she has no control over her life. Cutting is a way of having control over something, even when you know it's destructive. I don't claim to understand it, maybe someone closer to the issue can explain. All I know is that the girl needs support and love, and people who are willing to stand by her while she tries to push them farther and farther away (and it may get worse as she tests her limits).

However, I *wholeheartedly* support unbiased and ongoing education and support for teens dealing with all the issues teens deal with. And being Christian offers little to no immunity from it. Kids still feel messed up. They still have sex. They still drink, do drugs, and hurt themselves and each other.

If Tori is willing, with your support, to continue to be involved in K's life, I would suggest talking to her family, and maybe even have you and Tori visit K's therapist to see how she can help, as a friend. Who knows. You may just save someone's life.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:10 am

(not reading replies, about to go to bed, but wanted to comment)
In my town, within the past week, this has been a very big issues for 5th graders. More than 20 girls and boys have been cutting themselves for an adrenaline rush. Once the school found out what was happening, they notified all parents of the 5th grade class. Now i realize in your situation, there is only one girl doing it, but I still think the parents should be notified to some extent. What if there are other kids doing it and their parents/friends are unaware?

ETA: To answer you question. I don't think I would tell your daughter to stop their friendship, that may lead to something more serious happening to her friend. Then again, I wouldn't want to be in the situation and the friend encourage my child to start cutting, it's a toughy. Make sure your daughter knows what the consequences of cutting could be, like scars, infections, possible hospitalization and psychiatric care.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:07 am

The school shouldn't share private personal information about students just schoolwide. Yes you were touched by it because your daughter was her friend and she ended up texting her, but 99% of the population hasn't been effected. I would tell her that you think its good to be her friend right now but if K is asking for advice/talking about things she is uncomfortable with, she should talk to you about it. That girl is in a really dark place right now and that's a lot of responsibility on your daughter's shoulder.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:44 am

I agree with most of the people who have posted, the school does not have an obligation to tell the parents. It would be appropriate for them to have discussions in say a health class about self injury as well as other topics like eating disorders etc.

As far as your course of action as a parents, I think talking to Tori about setting boundaries would be a good place to start. How/can she continue to be a good friend without feeling an obligation/responsibility towards this friend? Is it a two sided friendship or is it one way with Tori being a caretaker?

I'm not sure how well you know the parents but if you are comfortable approaching them you could pass along that S.A.F.E. (self-abuse finally ends) has a good program. There is a lot of information on their web-page about how parents can address the situation. From my experience I will say that a lot of people (including those in the metal health industry) don't understand self-injury. Understandably self-injury makes a lot of people uncomfortable and this can lead to some very ineffective approaches. A program that focuses on why the behavior is occurring rather than focusing on stopping the behavior is going to be more effective.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:10 am

No the parents should not be notified. As long as K's parents are aware its nobody elses business. Like you said i think K needs all the support she needs right now and Tori being in contact with her is a good thing. Cutting is not like the flu Tori is not going to start cutting just because K does.

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Teenagers: Cutting - Letting Parents Know