The smart Dutch take on sex

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StarMo..
by StarMoon
Posts 3632
http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2010/09/07/netherlands_teen_sex

The Dutch could teach American parents a thing or two about the birds and the bees -- namely, the virtues of respect and acceptance of teenage sexuality. I just stumbled across a fascinating study (via Sociological Images) that compares these divergent cultural attitudes toward doing the nasty (which, by the way, is much less likely to be cast as "nasty" or "dirty" in the Netherlands). The report, "Sex, Love, and Autonomy in the Teenage Sleepover" by sociologist Amy Schalet, spills plenty of ink describing the forbidding and fearful American view of premarital teen sex that is all too familiar to most of us stateside. It's her description of parental attitudes in the Netherlands that really surprises, though.

A 2003 survey "found that two thirds of Dutch fifteen to seventeen-year-olds with steady boy- or girlfriends are allowed to spend the night with them in their bedrooms, and that boys and girls are equally likely to get permission for a sleepover." Schalet writes:

Dutch parents, by contrast, downplay the dangerous and difficult sides of teenage sexuality, tending to normalize it. They speak of readiness (er aan toe zijn), a process of becoming physically and emotionally ready for sex that they believe young people can self-regulate, provided they've been encouraged to pace themselves and prepare adequately. Rather than emphasizing gender battles, Dutch parents talk about sexuality as emerging from relationships and are strikingly silent about gender conflicts. And unlike Americans who are often skeptical about teenagers' capacities to fall in love, they assume that even those in their early teens fall in love. They permit sleepovers, even if that requires an "adjustment" period to overcome their feelings of discomfort, because they feel obliged to stay connected and accepting as sex becomes part of their children's lives.

More generally, the country's "moral rules cast sexuality as a part of life that should be governed by self-determination, mutual respect, frank conversation, and the prevention of unintended consequence." It's no coincidence that the country has also secured easy access (for both teens and adults) to contraceptives and other sexual healthcare.

The upshot of all this? Dutch teens are giving birth left and right and plagued by STDs! Oh, no, wait -- the truth is actually the opposite of that. "In 2007, births to American teens (ages fifteen to nineteen) were eight times as high as in the Netherlands," reports Schalet, and the Netherlands generally whoops on the states in terms of STD rates, too. What's more, "it also appears that having sex outside of the context of monogamous romantic relationships isn't as common among Dutch adolescents, especially older ones, as among their American counterparts."

None of this surprises me. I grew up in a very atypical American household where my long-term boyfriend was frequently allowed to sleep over. Eventually, he was allowed to move in with us because of serious family issues on his part -- but that's a whole 'nother story, believe me. My point is that I was allowed an unusual degree of autonomy over my own sex life. Instead of sneaking out of the house to have sex in the backseat of a car, I was engaging in playful exploration in my childhood bedroom with my first love -- and my parents were right across the hall the whole time. I had no sense that sex was a naughty or shameful act; it was a fun and meaningful activity to which I felt fully entitled. And you know what? I consistently used condoms, I was on birth control pills and I insisted that both of us were tested for STDs.

I would never claim that sexual freedom is actually the key to safe sex among teens, and my anecdotal experience certainly shouldn't be the basis for public or parental policy. But with regards to teen pregnancy and STD rates, the numbers just don't lie: We need to be paying attention to the Netherlands.

* Tracy Clark-Flory is a staff writer at Salon. Follow @tracyclarkflory on Twitter. More: Tracy Clark-Flory

Do you agree?
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mum2on..
by mum2one
Posts 2898
While they say that birth rates are higher in the US, I wonder what abortion rates are like. I wonder because, and of course this is anecdotal so who knows, but a friend of mine who is from Holland has said that pretty much most of the girls he knew in school had had at least one abortion. Whereas I, in school at the same time (he is 5 months older than me), knew 2 people who had had an abortion. Now, that doesn't mean that I didn't know more who did have them that didn't talk about them, but still, it makes me wonder.

Personally, I think being open & honest about sex is the best way to go. That doesn't mean that I will allow sleep overs. But then, we aren't at an age where sleeping over anywhere except the cousins is allowed, so it isn't something I'm really dealing with because why? It's so far off that there is no reason to even contemplate it right now!
StarMo..
by StarMoon
Posts 3632
I found this info at http://www.religioustolerance.org/pregadol.htm

Comparison of abortion statistics in the U.S., France, Germany and the Netherlands:

Factor United States France Germany Netherlands
Pregnancy 79.8 20.2 25% 16.1 20% 8.7 11%
Births 48.7 10.0 21% 12.5 26% 4.5 9%
Abortions 27.5 10.2 37% 5.6 20% 4.2 15%

The percentages show the rate for each country expressed as a percentage of the U.S. value. For example, the Netherlands abortion rate per year is 4.2 per thousand adolescents which is about 15% of the American figure.
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Rissa2..
by Rissa2008
Posts 1340
No, I don't agree. I think the problem is that parents here in the U.S. tell their children not to have sex, but then they aren't involved in their lives. There are so many factors that play into it. My personal belief is that MOST of the time, if parents are actively involved in their children's lives, and lovingly teach them morals, the children will follow them.

I'm the only partner DH has ever had. He grew up in a very loving home. They didn't attend church every Sunday, but they did live by a set of values. Surprisingly, his mom didn't care about modesty. She did listen to her children though, and they knew their parents wanted them to remain chaste. Their two oldest children (one is my DH) have only ever had sex with their spouses. Their 3rd child has had a few partners, but is currently wanting to abstain until marriage. The youngest is a virgin (she turned 16 in March).

I, on the other hand, was raised in an abusive home, where I didn't know my bio dad, and my dad (step-dad who married my mom when I was 2) never cared. Every single one of my parents' 6 children have had problems with morality. Kid 1 has had over 100 partners and is now in prison. Kid 2 has had several partners, has 2 kids from 2 men (first kid is from her DH, 2nd was conceived during an affair. She is going through divorce from her DH) and is suicidal and a drug addict. Kid 3 (me) had 2 partners before DH, and was constantly in bad relationships until starting college. Kid 4 had 2 girls from 2 guys (one of the fathers is kid 4's bio mom's ex-bf), and was killed in a car accident on the way home from a club. Kid 5 is autistic, and has met very scary men online, many who are pedophiles. She thinks they love her (if she were getting the love from Daddy, she wouldn't be searching for it from these jerks). Kid 6 has had all sorts of problems, is amazingly going to graduate high school this month. Has a 14-yr-old gf, we think he's into drugs, and I'm pretty sure he's not a virgin. He's very violent and very sexual.

Really long post, but my personal experiences combined with DH's, and several other people we know, lead me to believe it's more about parental involvement than it is about accepting teen sex.
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hannah..
by hannahq
Posts 8329
I don't disagree that there is a level of naughty naughty no-no's with nudity and sex here in America, however I can't help but feel like I am morally obligated to protect my child while they are still a child and living in my house. That would mean no sleepovers not boys in bedrooms and oh my gosh can you imagine fooling around with your mom across the hall?
There is more to sex than pregnancy and std's. I just can't get behind the "go ahead and do it since you are going to anyway" type of approach. It just feels wrong to me. I did remain quite neutral throughout the article and did see some points but nothing really shocking to be honest. I would be interested in the familial make ups of families in the Netherlands and how many girls have 2 involved interested parents vs. the US where there seems to be a daddy issue somewhere along the line.
Susanna, mom to H(2005) and A(2008) and baby R!! 7/26/2011
mum2on..
by mum2one
Posts 2898
StarMoon wrote:I found this info at http://www.religioustolerance.org/pregadol.htm

Comparison of abortion statistics in the U.S., France, Germany and the Netherlands:

Factor United States France Germany Netherlands
Pregnancy 79.8 20.2 25% 16.1 20% 8.7 11%
Births 48.7 10.0 21% 12.5 26% 4.5 9%
Abortions 27.5 10.2 37% 5.6 20% 4.2 15%

The percentages show the rate for each country expressed as a percentage of the U.S. value. For example, the Netherlands abortion rate per year is 4.2 per thousand adolescents which is about 15% of the American figure.


Thanks for that info Carol. So it seems that abortion rates are lower. I wonder if that would be the same when my friend & I were in school 20 yrs ago, or if it would still be much lower. But then, I think about the type of people *he* would have hung out with vs the type of people *I* hung out with . . . lol
virgom..
by virgomommy2
Posts 806
I think this is pretty interesting. Many times I think the U.S.'s "no no" attitude towards teens and sex just push them into at an even younger age. How we've become so uptight about sex in general, I don't understand.

I think one thing here is, we tend to wait to even discuss sex with our kids until they are already in the thick of it. They are already struggling with their sexual feelings and trying to navigate it all by themselves. Personally, I'm taking the aproach of speaking about their bodies and what they are feeling from a young age.

I've been discussing these things with my kids since they were 3 yrs old. By that I mean, discussing body pats, including sperm that makes babies. and I've gone into further detail with each year they get older. My hope is, they will be comfortable with their bodies and the changes they are going through. And with that knowledge, they can be better prepared when it comes to having sex.
"Every time you are tempted to react in the same old way, ask if you want to be a prisoner of the past or a pioneer of the future" ~Deepak Chopra
reese6..
by reese606
Posts 847
Hmm, I actually read a book about this (can't think of the name of it, but its by Jane Eyre) when my sister was talking to my niece for the first time about sex. I have to say one thing I was most impressed about (and I think I will discuss with my daughter when she is older) is that sex is not "bad" as most parents make it seem. Its like anything else, kids are told no then they want it why would you explain something in such a negative light to your CHILD, that is the way they got to you, right?

Do I want my daughter to get pregnant? Absolutely not, but i'd never lie to her (lie imo) and tell her that sex is bad. I would be more concerned for my daughter to know how to be safe, and to make sure that she's having sex with someone who matters to her.

As for the dutch allowing boyfriends/girlfriends in bedrooms for sleepovers... that seems a little crazy lol.
~Reese

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~super..
by ~supermom~
Posts 3078
The sex talk starts early in my household. The littles are 6 and know about sperm and egg and such. They know the proper names for body parts and have seen each others parts in passing. They haven't yet asked how the sperm and egg get to the same place but that won't be much longer now. My oldest is 9 and it was just around his birthday when he asked about sex and why people do it.

Part of the discussion we had was that sex is a really neat thing but that there are lots of really neat things that kids are not ready to do yet. I want him to wait until he is ready and that takes time.

I'm not a prude but it is hard for me to imagine having boy/grilfriends sleep over. We will have to see how my feelings with that change or solidify as they get older.
Danielle
Dexter age 9, Morgan age 6 and Marley age 6  
 
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