I am a firm believer in a zero tolerance policy for any kind of violence at all. If you lay your hands on another student for any reason immediate action will be taken. Violence, in my opinion, should not be taken lightly. I feel the same way about bullying. So to answer your question, no amount of violence is acceptable.
Sometimes children just aren't smart enough to know that even a "fun game" of shoving can get someone seriously hurt. It also tends to get children into the habit of thinking it is funny to hit or shove another child. I just don't think that is okay.

I don't really think any violence is acceptable in a school setting.  It would bother me if the students were being aggressive and nothing was being done.  At the very least teachers should be correcting the behavior.

I don't feel I have enough experience to fairly comment on this.  Neither of my kids are in grade school.  

But IMHO there has to be some middle ground.  I think it's sad when most of the games I played in school are extinct because "someone might get their feelers hurt".  Some things (not saying getting the crap kicked out of you) are rites of passage.  

Jenny

Pushing, whether playing a game or not, should be stopped if seen by the adult in charge.  I would stop that on the playground.  I don't know if it is a game or someone being picked on.  It also makes for an unsafe situation, not just for the kids involved but other kids going by.  I've seen a student trip over the invisible objects that the school places on the playground just to mess with the kids, bump into another student and the BOTH fell.  So when pushing, the same thing could happen. 

I do not think that "play" fighting is acceptable in a school setting either.  I can't tell if you are playing or fighting, which means you both will be in the principals office. 

So no, there is no form of violent play that I think is acceptable on the playground/in class.

Our school has a very assertive "no bullying" policy as well.  Since that is what we are used to, I would have a hard time going back to the "let kids be kids" thing.  Safety is non-negotiable, IMO.  Pushing each other off playground equipment is not safe, and children's mutual agreement that is it so, is not acceptable to me when it is under adult supervision (as lunch and recess are).  It's just that simple.

I think physically aggressive behaviour should ALWAYS be dealt with, and this is coming from a mother who has children that tend to cope by using aggressive behaviour.

I would be horrified to know that my kid did ANYTHING aggressive and nobody said anything to him about it, as it is always always addressed here at home.

No violence is ever 'acceptable"
There are varying degrees that I think should be dealt with in different manners - this can range from a stern reprimand to a detention to expulsion - taking into account the age of the child and the circumstances that led up to a physical altercation.

j.

what shouldn't an adult correct?

hard to define.  i'd like staff members & aids to be permitted a bit of discretion. 
a soft shove witnessed from across the playground should get an adult's attention; upon further investigation, if the children appear to be engaged in friendly play it shouldn't result in disciplinary action or intervention.  if it continued, or if the adult was nearby when it occurred, the adult in charge should remind the children that shoving isn't appropriate.  whereas any form of hitting, kicking, spitting, or verbal assault would warrant immediate intervention by the adult.

in other words, if it seems harmless to the adult in charge, i don't think they should be obligated to chasing down every child for every small infraction.  zero-tolerance policies can make their jobs very difficult, with much time wasted on pulling aside every child, every time, for reprimand over what is often innocent play.

hope that was clear enough  

Former middle school teacher hat, now.  No form should be tolerated by adults.  I worked in a school in the heart of an area known for gang activity, and we allowed no form of "play fighting."  It was an automatic referral, which usually led to ISS for the next day.  We had far fewer problems than schools in less hostile neighborhoods. 

Dorydorito wrote:I don't feel I have enough experience to fairly comment on this.  Neither of my kids are in grade school.  
But IMHO there has to be some middle ground.  I think it's sad when most of the games I played in school are extinct because "someone might get their feelers hurt".  Some things (not saying getting the crap kicked out of you) are rites of passage.  
Jenny

 
^^^^ wat she said.... I dont think dodgeball is allowed unless in gym class and other fun games to which sux...

I do not think it is acceptable whether its consented by the children or not. I think it only can take a matter of seconds before something can get out of hand and extremely dangerous. This is the playground supervisors duty along with the teachers to ensure this is not happening and the parents to.

Ciennasmom wrote:I do not think it is acceptable whether its consented by the children or not. I think it only can take a matter of seconds before something can get out of hand and extremely dangerous. This is the playground supervisors duty along with the teachers to ensure this is not happening and the parents to.

 

ITA. Although this depends greatly on the student:adult ratio - there have to be enough adults there to be able to stop what is going on.

mdesi wrote:Former middle school teacher hat, now.  No form should be tolerated by adults.  I worked in a school in the heart of an area known for gang activity, and we allowed no form of "play fighting."  It was an automatic referral, which usually led to ISS for the next day.  We had far fewer problems than schools in less hostile neighborhoods. 

 

We would not be allowed to write referrals for "play-fighting" unless someone was engaged against their will or someone got hurt. In my city, each principal has been encouraged to decrease the number of suspensions in his/her school. Instead of finding ways to discourage negative behavior that would lead to suspension, most of them just stopped suspending kids for any infraction below a certain category. And of course, no perceived penalty means that kids just keep misbehaving. It has been an unmitigated failure. I wish we had that kind of system you describe above.

There is NO level of physical aggression that is acceptable.  Zero tolerance.

DomnShysmom0709 wrote:

I don't feel I have enough experience to fairly comment on this.  Neither of my kids are in grade school.  
But IMHO there has to be some middle ground.  I think it's sad when most of the games I played in school are extinct because "someone might get their feelers hurt".  Some things (not saying getting the crap kicked out of you) are rites of passage.  
Jenny

  
^^^^ wat she said.... I dont think dodgeball is allowed unless in gym class and other fun games to which sux...

 
We allowed dodgeball in gym class, but not in student pick up games.  Allowing kids to do a pick up game of dodgeball is begging for trouble/bullying. 

I do not think violence should ever be acceptable. Yes, kids will push each other and it should be addressed but I think it should be handled differently then if someone hit another student. 
In my children's school anytime a student puts their hand on another student it is addressed. 
I think your school is ignoring a huge issue and needs to react now. Aggressive behavior is not acceptable, and if the students feel that nothing is being done then the school is allowing bullying. 
I do not think kids should be allowed to play games at school that allow pushing and shoving. A teacher should stop that kind of behavior. Many times those games are ways to "pick"on the smaller kids and the school should prevent that.
I do not believe in babying our kids -but I do not think it should be allowed at school - I think if the school allows pushing and shoving as a game or in certain situations, the kids get confused as to the role of the school and when they should tell on an action or kid. If the child was pushed around on the playground during a game (and it was rough) but a teacher did nothing, why would that child tell if a kid pushed him in the hallway. 
Peppy
ps -for me it is all or nothing when it comes to elementary school.

I'm currently struggling with a similar situation, but I think age ranges also play a part.
 
AFA elementary school, I think anything that happens in classroom, in line, in the halls, etc should be dealt with by supervising adult. Basically, anytime there IS a supervising adult nearby. In lunchrooms and on the playground, my tolerance is a little higher (though I still wouldn't WANT any physical aggression, just talking about smaller stuff going unnoticed when the ratio is higher). On the playground, I still feel that no one should get hurt, so my threshold would be there (no physical aggression or hurting others), but I'd understand if the playground monitor wasn't nearby and some things went unresolved, esp if the kids involved didn't 'tattle' or were complicit in a game, like you said.
 
I hope the parent meeting yields some results for Juliet's school. Sounds like this is a big change from where she was before. The school I taught in had a big anti-bullying policy, but it was a new program and they needed it. There was still a pretty big problem with aggression and bullying while I was there. I think there's a line somewhere between bullying and 'normal' childhood behaviors, but I don't know that I can put it into words, or even be consistent about it when it comes time for me to be. =-) Wish there was more of a definitive answer, but I guess it's like the Supreme Court said... I'll know it when I see it. (Sorry I forgot who wrote that opinion, but it was referencing vulgarity)
 
I've been wondering at what age I as a parent should back off from stepping in when it comes to behaviors - family members like to use the term 'playground justice,' meaning that if someone's not playing nicely, they'll get their come-uppings in karma-like fashion, and adults should stay out of it entirely. I agree that at some point kids need to be able to deal with each other directly and that if so-and-so's not being nice, the natural consequence is that others won't want to play with him/her. However, I feel that at younger ages, kids first need to learn what those unacceptable behaviors are. I think that at 3-almost-4, my son's still in the learning phase and though I don't hover over him, I do step in when I think things are getting out of hand, or he's breaking a rule. Some family members think I'm going overboard, but I think they are thinking of older kids, like 6-8, and aren't necessarily being age-appropriate in their expectations. I don't know though, I'm still struggling and maybe I am stepping in too much...